Author Topic: Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?  (Read 3710 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline odading

  • Super Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 3314
  • Reputation Power:
  • Denominasi: non-agama
Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?
« on: August 05, 2012, 10:56:02 PM »
Temen2,

Saya sendiri belon pernah baca Kitab Enokh  :giggle:.
Namun sempet baca bbrp artikel. Ada yg bilang ter-inspirasi http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/bep/bep01.htm, ada juga yg bilang heresy http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/book_of_enoch.htm. (dan banyak lagi link link lainnya yg terbagi pada 2 kelompok tsb).

Yang bilang heresy, gak saya gitu baca dgn menyimak - karena gaya bahasa penyampaiannya saya udah gak suka ... :)

Yang bilang ter-inspirasi, saya lumayan menyimak - karena penjelasannya cukup detail serta dalam bentuk pemaparan netral. (dan saya cenderung berada di kelompok ini ... :)).

Sebagai bahan permulaan : (dpt dari internet)
Kitab Enoch BUKAN ditulis oleh Enoch sendiri. Mr.X mendapat visi, dimana mr.X 'melihat or mendengar' cuplikan Enoch bernubuat, mr.X mencatatnya. Dan bukan hanya mr.X saja, ada visi mister mister lainnya (berlainan waktu), yg 'menyumbangkan' tulisannya dalam keseluruhan Kitab Enokh.

(1) Book of the Watchers (chaps. 1-36) 150-200 BC
(2) Book of the Similitudes (chaps. 37-7l) 50 BC-200 AD
(3) Book of Astronomical Writings (chaps. 72-82) 200 BC
(4) Book of Dream Visions (chaps. 83-90) 150 BC
(5) Book of the Epistle of Enoch (chaps. 91-107) 0-170 BC

Pertanyaannya :
Mengapa Kitab Enoch di 'kucil'kan - menurut Gereja Indonesia pada umumnya dan FIK pada khususnya ? Pendapat sendiri (lepas dari apa yg diharuskan Gereja) juga saya persilahkan ... :)

salam.

bruce

  • Guest
Re: Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 07:06:05 AM »
The Book of Henoch (Ethiopic)

The antediluvian patriarch Henoch according to Genesis "walked with God and was seen no more, because God took him". This walking with God was naturally understood to refer to special revelations made to the patriarch, and this, together with the mystery surrounding his departure from the world, made Henoch's name an apt one for the purposes of apocalyptic writers. In consequence there arose a literature attributed to him.

It influenced not only later Jewish apocrypha, but has left its imprint on the New Testament and the works of the early Fathers. The canonical Epistle of St. Jude, in verses 14, 15, explicitly quotes from the Book of Henoch; the citation is found in the Ethiopic version in verses 9 and 4 of the first chapter. There are probable traces of the Henoch literature in other portions of the New Testament.

Passing to the patristic writers, the Book of Henoch enjoyed a high esteem among them, mainly owing to the quotation in Jude. The so-called Epistle of Barnabas twice cites Henoch as Scripture. Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Origen, and even St. Augustine suppose the work to be a genuine one of the patriarch. But in the fourth century the Henoch writings lost credit and ceased to be quoted. After an allusion by an author of the beginning of the ninth century, they disappear from view.

So great was the oblivion into which they fell that only scanty fragments of Greek and Latin versions were preserved in the West. The complete text was thought to have perished when it was discovered in two Ethiopic manuscripts in Abyssinia, by the traveler Bruce in 1773. Since, several more copies in the same language have been brought to light. Recently a large Greek fragment comprising chapters i-xxxii was unearthed at Akhmîn in Egypt.

Scholars agree that the Book of Henoch was originally composed either in Hebrew or Aramaic, and that the Ethiopic version was derived from a Greek one. A comparison of the Ethiopic text with the Akhmîn Greek fragment proves that the former is in general a trustworthy translation. The work is a compilation, and its component parts were written in Palestine by Jews of the orthodox Hasidic or Pharisaic schools. Its composite character appears clearly from the palpable differences in eschatology, in the views of the origin of sin and of the character and importance of the Messias found in portions otherwise marked off from each other by diversities of subject. Critics agree that the oldest portions are those included in chapters i-xxxvi and (broadly speaking) lxxi-civ.

It will be seen that the work is a voluminous one. But the most recent research, led by the Rev. R.H. Charles, an English specialist, breaks up this part into at least two distinct constituents. Charles's analysis and dating are: i-xxxvi, the oldest part, composed before 170 B.C.; xxxvii-lxx, lxxxiii-xc, written between 166-161 B.C.; chapters xci-civ between the years 134-95 B.C.; the Book of Parables between 94-64 B.C.; the Book of Celestial Physics, lxxii-lxxviii, lxxxii, lxxix, date undetermined. Criticism recognizes, scattered here and there, interpolations from a lost apocalypse, the Book of Noah. Expert opinion is not united on the date of the composite older portion, i.e. i-xxxvi, lxxi-civ. The preponderant authority represented by Charles and Schürer assigns it to the latter part of the second century before Christ, but Baldensperger would bring it down to a half century before our Era.

Contents

In the following outline of contents, Charles's analysis, which is supported by cogent reasons, has been adopted. The various elements are taken up in their chronological sequence.

Book I (chapters 1-36)

Its body contains an account of the fall of the angelic "Watchers", their punishment, and the patriarch's intervention in their history. It is based upon Genesis 6:2: "The sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took to themselves wives of all they chose." The narrative is intended to explain the origin of sin and evil in the world and in this connection lays very little stress on the disobedience of our First Parents. This portion is remarkable for the entire absence of a Messias.

Book II (chapters 83-90)

This book contains two visions. In the first, lxxxiii-lxxxiv, is portrayed the dreadful visitation of the flood, about to fall upon the earth. Henoch supplicates God not to annihilate the human race. The remaining section, under the symbolism of cattle, beasts, and birds, sketches the entire history of Israel down to the Messianic reign.

Book III (chapters 91-94, 98)

It professes to give a prophetic vision of the events of the world-weeks, centering about Israel. This part is distinguished by insistence upon a sharp conflict between the righteous of the nation and their wicked opponents both within and without Israel. They triumph and slay their oppressors in a Messianic kingdom without a personal Messias. At its close occurs the final judgment, which inaugurates a blessed immortality in heaven for the righteous. For this purpose all the departed just will rise from a mysterious abode, though apparently not in the body (ciii, 3, 4). The wicked will go into the Sheol of darkness and fire and dwell there forever. This is one of the earliest mentions of Sheol as a hell of torment, preceding portions of the book having described the place of retribution for the wicked as Tartarus and Geennom.

Book IV (chapters 37-70)

This book consists of three "Parables". The first describes the secrets of heaven, giving prominence to the angelic hosts and their princes. The second parable (xliv-lvii) deals with the Messias, and is the most striking of this remarkable book. The influence of Daniel is easily traceable here, but the figure of the Messias is sketched much more fully, and the idea developed to a degree unparalleled in pre-Christian literature. The Elect One, or Son of Man, existed before the sun and stars were created, and is to execute justice upon all sinners who oppress the good. For this end there will be a resurrection of all Israel and a judgment in which the Son of Man will render to everyone according to his deeds. Iniquity will be banished from the earth and the reign of the Messias will be everlasting. The third parable (lviii-lxx) describes again the happiness reserved for the just, the great Judgment and the secrets of nature. Here and there throughout the Book of Parables the author gives piecemeal his theory of the origin of sin. Going a step further back than the fault of the Watchers of the first book, he attributes their fall to certain mysterious Satans.

Book V (chapters 72-78, 89 and 79 transposed)

This book may be called the Book of Celestial Physics, or Astronomy. It presents a bewildering mass of revelations concerning the movements of the heavenly bodies, given to Henoch by the angel Uriel. The final chapters of the entire work, cv-cvii, are drawn from the lost Book of Noah.

 http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01602a.htm

Offline odading

  • Super Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 3314
  • Reputation Power:
  • Denominasi: non-agama
Re: Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 11:30:16 AM »
Makasih bruce atas referensinya.

Jadi menurut bruce gimana ?
Heresy (layak dikucilkan), ataukah inspired (layak sbg bahan referensi) ?
Alasan-nya ?

salam.

bruce

  • Guest
Re: Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2012, 11:37:14 AM »
Makasih bruce atas referensinya.

Jadi menurut bruce gimana ?
Heresy (layak dikucilkan), ataukah inspired (layak sbg bahan referensi) ?
Alasan-nya ?

salam.

Saya memandangnya sebagai bahan referensi, bro.
Bahkan yang nyata nyata gnostik, pun. Tetap dianggap sebagai kitab berharga oleh Katolik, seperti misalnya Kitab Judas, tetap dipelihara keberadaannya.

Syalom

Offline odading

  • Super Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 3314
  • Reputation Power:
  • Denominasi: non-agama
Re: Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 11:53:28 AM »
Saya memandangnya sebagai bahan referensi, bro.
Bahkan yang nyata nyata gnostik, pun. Tetap dianggap sebagai kitab berharga oleh Katolik, seperti misalnya Kitab Judas, tetap dipelihara keberadaannya.

Syalom
Lalu bagaimana dgn pencanangan Gereja bhw Sons of God di Kejadian 6:2 tsb adalah Garis Keturunan Seth ?

Padahal, belum tau ttg Kitab Enochpun --- sudah banyak orang (saya salah satunya) berpendapat bhw mereka 'supernatural-being' saat membaca Kej 6:2 tsb  ---  apalagi di'perkuat' dgn detail Kitab Enoch sbg referensi ?

Bukankah jadinya .... kayaknya .... ---imo--- yg berpengertian GarisKeturunan Seth itu yg malah terkesan nggak Alkitabiah ?

salam.

bruce

  • Guest
Re: Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2012, 11:58:17 AM »
Lalu bagaimana dgn pencanangan Gereja bhw Sons of God di Kejadian 6:2 tsb adalah Garis Keturunan Seth ?

Padahal, belum tau ttg Kitab Enochpun --- sudah banyak orang (saya salah satunya) berpendapat bhw mereka 'supernatural-being' saat membaca Kej 6:2 tsb  ---  apalagi di'perkuat' dgn detail Kitab Enoch sbg referensi ?

Bukankah jadinya .... kayaknya .... ---imo--- yg berpengertian GarisKeturunan Seth itu yg malah terkesan nggak Alkitabiah ?

salam.

Waah, itu udah beda lagi, bro.
Lain thread mungkin ya.

 :grining:

Offline odading

  • Super Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 3314
  • Reputation Power:
  • Denominasi: non-agama
Re: Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2012, 12:21:47 PM »
Waah, itu udah beda lagi, bro.
Lain thread mungkin ya.

 :grining:
sebenernya (seperti biasanya) saya juga gak tau mesti kasih judul yg bagus kayak gimana...  :blush:

Jadi disini maksudnya bruce, Gereja memang tidak 'mengucilkan' Kitab Enoch ?

Topik saya ini dikarenakan bertanya2 : "Kenapa sepertinya Kitab Enoch dilarang" ?
Alesan yg masuk : karena Kitab Enoch adalah bualan, nggak ada itu cerita bhw malaikat be-reproduksi dgn manusia ... Yesus bilang malaikat tidak kawin mengawin.
Menurut saya : alesan ijo tsb ---bagi saya--- kurang mengena. Toh Kitab Yudas kan juga ada mengutip Kitab Enokh ?

Oleh karena itu, topik saya buat ... siapa tau ada alesan laen yg lebih mengena.
Begitu maksud saya bruce.

Saya akui, pembicaraan Topik bisa meluas kemana mana ... namun kalo saya buka thread baru, apa yg akan saya kemukakan ? Ujung-ujungnya kan nanti akan sama lagi dgn maksud thread ini ... yaitu bertanya : alesan yg mengena shg Kitab Enoch di 'banned'... :)

salam.

bruce

  • Guest
Re: Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2012, 12:41:58 PM »
sebenernya (seperti biasanya) saya juga gak tau mesti kasih judul yg bagus kayak gimana...  :blush:

Jadi disini maksudnya bruce, Gereja memang tidak 'mengucilkan' Kitab Enoch ?

Topik saya ini dikarenakan bertanya2 : "Kenapa sepertinya Kitab Enoch dilarang" ?
Alesan yg masuk : karena Kitab Enoch adalah bualan, nggak ada itu cerita bhw malaikat be-reproduksi dgn manusia ... Yesus bilang malaikat tidak kawin mengawin.
Menurut saya : alesan ijo tsb ---bagi saya--- kurang mengena. Toh Kitab Yudas kan juga ada mengutip Kitab Enokh ?

Oleh karena itu, topik saya buat ... siapa tau ada alesan laen yg lebih mengena.
Begitu maksud saya bruce.

Saya akui, pembicaraan Topik bisa meluas kemana mana ... namun kalo saya buka thread baru, apa yg akan saya kemukakan ? Ujung-ujungnya kan nanti akan sama lagi dgn maksud thread ini ... yaitu bertanya : alesan yg mengena shg Kitab Enoch di 'banned'... :)

salam.

Pasti ada alasan penting dibalik penolakan Kitab Henokh dari Alkitab, bro. Tetapi biar bagaimana Kitab Henokh tetap penting untuk diketahui oleh umat Kristen. Karena kebanyakan kita hanya kenal Henokh sebagai dekat dengan Allah, dan diangkat ke surga. Tetapi kita tidak pernah tahu apa saja yang terjadi, dan bagaimana kisah hidup Henokh itu sendiri.


Offline hello kitty

  • Super Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1675
  • Reputation Power:
  • Denominasi: GKI
Re: Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2012, 01:39:09 PM »
Saya memandangnya sebagai bahan referensi, bro.
Bahkan yang nyata nyata gnostik, pun. Tetap dianggap sebagai kitab berharga oleh Katolik, seperti misalnya Kitab Judas, tetap dipelihara keberadaannya.

Syalom

Bro..bukannya kitab (tulisan) yang sifatnya gnostik ditolak tegas oleh GK?
contohnya : Injil Thomas, Injil Filipus
mengapa harus tetap dipelihara?
jangan masukkan kami ke dalam pencobaan..
karena kami bisa masuk sendiri ke dalamnya
(St. Kitty dari Lawang)

bruce

  • Guest
Re: Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2012, 01:57:22 PM »
Bro..bukannya kitab (tulisan) yang sifatnya gnostik ditolak tegas oleh GK?
contohnya : Injil Thomas, Injil Filipus
mengapa harus tetap dipelihara?

Ditolak untuk dipercaya betul, sis. Tetapi bukan ditolak untuk dihancurkan.

Kalau diibaratkan dengan perusahaan obat/software, menyimpan contoh virus tentu berguna untuk dipelajari.

Seperti itu kira kira pertimbangannya.

 :)

Offline gelas bening

  • FIK - Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
  • Reputation Power:
  • Denominasi: Protestan
Re: Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2012, 05:20:33 PM »
kitab henokh bukan inspirasi dari RK..
tidak perlu dibaca..

bruce

  • Guest
Re: Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2012, 05:27:46 PM »
kitab henokh bukan inspirasi dari RK..
tidak perlu dibaca..

Darimana anda tahu, bro?

Offline gelas bening

  • FIK - Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
  • Reputation Power:
  • Denominasi: Protestan
Re: Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2012, 05:32:11 PM »
Darimana anda tahu, bro?

tidak masuk protocanonik..  :)  :afro:

bruce

  • Guest
Re: Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2012, 05:36:50 PM »
tidak masuk protocanonik..  :)  :afro:

Mengapa anda bisa percaya apa yang dilakukan oleh Magisterium, bro?

 :grining:

Offline odading

  • Super Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 3314
  • Reputation Power:
  • Denominasi: non-agama
Re: Kitab Enokh - alasan yg paling logis sehingga di 'kucil'kan ?
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2012, 05:48:41 PM »
Quote from: kitty
ditolak tegas oleh GK?
Quote from: bruce
Ditolak untuk dipercaya betul,

jadi alesannya apa yah ampe di tolak ?

Quote from: gelas
kitab henokh bukan inspirasi dari RK
Kalo nggak ter-inspirasi - kenapa Kitab Yudas ada nge-quote Kitab Henokh, ya ?

Quote from: gelas
tidak masuk protocanonik..
tidak masuk kanon, menurut artikel itulah alesannya kenapa Kitab Enokh gak di ikut sertakan sebagai bagian Alkitab, namun tetap sebuah Kitab yg ter-inspirasi... bukan sekedar bualan.

salam.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 05:51:36 PM by odading »