Author Topic: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"  (Read 4781 times)

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Offline John Paul III

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Re: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2012, 07:52:19 AM »
Sepertinya bro Duke ini sedang menanyakan "mengapa kitab makabe dimasukkan ke dalam kanon katolik".

CMIIW

(dan hal ini sudah sering dijawab. => konsili jamnia dsb. )


salam.
:)

Offline St Yopi

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Re: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2012, 08:38:16 AM »
Sepertinya bro Duke ini sedang menanyakan "mengapa kitab makabe dimasukkan ke dalam kanon katolik".

CMIIW

(dan hal ini sudah sering dijawab. => konsili jamnia dsb. )


salam.
:)
Bro Duke silhakan diskusi di sini:

http://forumimankristen.com/index.php/topic,477.75.html
Inter Esse Et Non Esse

Cogito Ergo Sum

Tuus Totus Ego Sum, Et Omnia Mea Tua Sunt

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus

In Hoc Signo Vinces

With love,

your Yopi

Offline Duke Archangel

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Re: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2012, 07:19:29 PM »
Bro Duke silhakan diskusi di sini:

http://forumimankristen.com/index.php/topic,477.75.html

Nope at all...
Itu privacy Xan... :nod:
Sy hanya mempertanyakan ayat2 yg digunakan untuk mendukung pengajaran "...Doa kepada orang mati..."... seperti yg Sy tulis sebelumnya...That's all  :nod: :nod:
For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;[Yet] through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.

Offline Duke Archangel

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Re: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2012, 07:24:00 PM »
Orang katolik percaya bahwa mereka yg mati (fisik) dalam keadaan percaya, itu akan berada dalam dua tempat : surga atau purgatory.(kalau yg ke neraka udah ngga usah di-omongin lagi ).

Jika berada di surga, maka kehidupan (jiwa/roh) orang ini sudah tidak bisa di ganggu lagi (sudah enak istilahnya)

Jika berada di purgatory, hidup orang ini perlu di doakan oleh yg masih hidup di dunia ini.

Kalau dilanjutin bakal lanjut ke purgatory nech...
Jd di close aja yach yg ini...
Biar g' OOT :deal:

Kan kalau sudah penghakiman terakhir semua sudah selesai. Alias the end of the world.
Maksudnya, antara yg hidup dan yang hidup setelah kematian fisik, masih ada tali persekutuan. Jadi yg masih hidup masih bisa mendoakan yg sudah mati.
Kan saya sudah bilang di atas, bahwa yg  sudah mati itu masih hidup * hidup setelah mati*.
Makanya saya tanya apakah bro percaya ada kehidupan setelah mati ?

Salam:)


Sepertinya Qt sedang membahas ayat2 yg digunakan untuk pengajaran "...Mendoakan orang mati...", bukan yg lain.
Thanks...
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 07:28:06 PM by Duke Archangel »
For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;[Yet] through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.

Offline Duke Archangel

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Re: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2012, 07:32:26 PM »
@ Bruce

Jadi tidak ada doa ?
Termasuk ucapan (doa) semoga arwahnya diterima di rumah Bapa di sorga?

Syalom

Dari doa ini, gimana menurut bro terjemahannya...

Quote
(Cong Amen. May His great Name be blessed forever and ever.)

May His great Name be blessed forever and ever.
Blessed, praised, glorified, exalted, extolled, mighty, upraised, and lauded be the Name of the Holy One, Blessed is He

(Cong. Blessed is He)

beyond any blessing and song, praise and consolation that are uttered in the world.
Now respond: Amen.

(Cong. Amen).

May there be abundant peace from Heaven, and life upon us and upon all Israel.
Now respond: Amen.
He Who makes peace in His heights, may He make peace, upon us and upon all Israel.
Now respond: Amen.

(Cong. Amen).

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/kaddish.html
For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;[Yet] through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.

Offline Duke Archangel

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Re: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2012, 07:38:12 PM »
Sy HANYA AKAN MENTERJEMAHKAN secara bebas apa yg Sy tandain karena disitu poin viewnya:

1. The central theme of the Kaddish is the magnification and sanctification of God's name. ( Thema sentral dari Kaddish adalah membesarkan dan menguduskan nama Allah.

2. part of the mourning rituals in Judaism in all prayer services as well as at funerals and memorials (bagian dari ritual berkabung dalam Yudaisme di semua layanan doa serta di pemakaman dan kenangan)

3. Mourners say Kaddish to show that despite the loss they still praise God. (Pelayat mengucapkan Kaddish untuk menunjukkan bahwa meskipun kehilangan, mereka masih memuji Tuhan.)

Dari poin view disini jelas bahwa Kaddish TUJUAN DARI MENGUCAPKAN Kaddish BUKAN UNTUK MENDOAKAN orang mati, MELAINKAN TETAP MEMUJI Allah meskipun mereka kehilangan orang2 yg mereka kasihi.


kan saya sudah katakan bahwa TIDAK ADA SATU PUN DOA ORANG KATOLIK YANG TIDAK MEMULIAKAN Allah..!
coba ingat2 lagi ini tgl 14/09/2012 saya pernah tulis demikian:
FYI, baik mendoakan orang hidup dan orang mati sama2 memuliakan Allah..!

jadi poitnya : semua doa adalah utk memuliakan Allah..!
jangan karena kita mendoakan orang mati maka kita tidak memuliakan Allah, dan jangan karena kita mendoakan saudara kita yang sakit kemudian kita tidak memuliakan Allah..!

tolong jangan di ulang2 lagi..  :)
Poin viewnya SUDAH yg Sy tandain.
Sementara dalam prosesi berdoanya tentu saja melibatkan reaksi emosional dr yg mengucapkan KADDISH karena memang saat mengucapkan itu, si pelayat dalam keadaan DITINGGALKAN oleh orang2 yg dia kasihi.


terserah kamu mau mengunakan terjemahan google juga gpp..
sekarang kamu bandingkan doa utk orang hidup dengan doa pada saat pemakaman..

utk orang hidup :
"kasihanilah Duke ya Tuhan, ampuni segala kesalahannya … Lindungi dia diperjalanan sampai di kantor didalam naungan sayap-Mu"
menurut kamu doa diatas merupakan doa utk kemuliaan Allah thok (doang) atau memuliakan Allah + juga mendoakan Duke ...??

silakan kamu jawab..

============
kemudian utk orang mati :
"kasihanilah Alm. A ya Tuhan, ampuni segala kesalahannya … Lindungi arwahnya didalam naungan sayap-Mu, tuntun dia kejalan kehidupan"
menurut kamu doa diatas merupakan doa utk kemuliaan Allah thok (doang) atau memuliakan Allah + juga mendoakan Alm. A ...??

Silakan kamu jawab..



kemudian ini kamu terjemahkan teks Kaddish ini :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_for_the_dead#Judaism

terserah mau pakai google juga gpp..
kemudian kamu simpulkan doa diatas merupakan doa utk kemuliaan Allah thok (doang) atau memuliakan Allah + juga mendoakan yang mati pada saat pemakaman tsb. ...??

Ini isi doa Kaddish yg menjadi tradisi Israel, sudah yg kesekian kalinya Sy tulis.
Tolong jangan sampai Sy re-write.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/kaddish.html SUDAH Sy TULISKAN isinya :

Quote
(Cong Amen. May His great Name be blessed forever and ever.)

May His great Name be blessed forever and ever.
Blessed, praised, glorified, exalted, extolled, mighty, upraised, and lauded be the Name of the Holy One, Blessed is He

(Cong. Blessed is He)

beyond any blessing and song, praise and consolation that are uttered in the world.
Now respond: Amen.

(Cong. Amen).

May there be abundant peace from Heaven, and life upon us and upon all Israel.
Now respond: Amen.
He Who makes peace in His heights, may He make peace, upon us and upon all Israel.
Now respond: Amen.

(Cong. Amen).

Thanks...
For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;[Yet] through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.

Offline Duke Archangel

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Re: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2012, 07:47:44 PM »
Re-write :

Kembali ke ayat2 yg digunakan oleh Yudas Makabe, disini Qt membahas hal2 yg berkaitan dengan Hukum Taurat dalam Perjanjian Lama.

Ini ayat yg digunakan untuk mendukung pengajaran "..Mendoakan orang mati..: oleh umat Katholik Roma.

"Sebab jika tidak menaruh harapan bahwa orang-orang yang gugur itu akan bangkit, niscaya percuma dan hampalah mendoakan orang-orang mati. Lagipula Yudas ingat bahwa tersedialah pahala yang amat indah bagi sekalian orang yang meninggal dengan saleh. Ini sungguh suatu pikiran yang mursid dan saleh. Dari sebab itu maka disuruhnyalah mengadakan korban penebus salah untuk semua orang yang sudah mati itu, supaya mereka dilepaskan dari dosa mereka."
2 Makabe 12:44-45


Apakah korban penebus salah yg diajarkan dalam Hukum Taurat, juga ditujukan untuk orang mati....?
Anda perhatikan ayat2 dibawah ini YANG BERKAITAN DENGAN korban penebus salah

Apabila seseorang berubah setia dan tidak sengaja berbuat dosa dalam sesuatu hal kudus yang dipersembahkan kepada Tuhan, maka haruslah ia mempersembahkan kepada Tuhan sebagai tebusan salahnya seekor domba jantan yang tidak bercela dari kambing domba, dinilai menurut syikal perak, yakni menurut syikal kudus, menjadi korban penebus salah.

Hal kudus yang menyebabkan orang itu berdosa, haruslah dibayar gantinya dengan menambah seperlima, lalu menyerahkannya kepada imam. Imam harus mengadakan pendamaian bagi orang itu dengan domba jantan korban penebus salah itu, sehingga ia menerima pengampunan.

Jikalau seseorang berbuat dosa dengan melakukan salah satu hal yang dilarang Tuhan tanpa mengetahuinya, maka ia bersalah dan harus menanggung kesalahannya sendiri.

Haruslah ia membawa kepada imam seekor domba jantan yang tidak bercela dari kambing domba, yang sudah dinilai, sebagai korban penebus salah. Imam itu haruslah mengadakan pendamaian bagi orang itu karena perbuatan yang tidak disengajanya dan yang tidak diketahuinya itu, sehingga ia menerima pengampunan.

Itulah korban penebus salah; orang itu sungguh bersalah terhadap Tuhan.
Imamat 5:15-19

Dalam ayat diatas diceritakan bahwa yg menerima dan melakukan prosesi korban penebusan salah itu adalah imam dan pelaku dan tentu saja, pelaku ini masih hidup.
But...
Yang dilakukan Yudas Makabe adalah sesuatu yg melanggar pengajaran dalam Hukum Taurat berkaitan dengan hal itu.
Bagi kebanyakan orang, yg dilakukan oleh Yudas Makabe mungkin benar tetapi ketika kembali ke pengajaran Hukum Taurat, ternyata dia melakukan sesuatu yg bertentangan dengan Hukum Taurat itu sendiri.

Bagaimana tanggapan anda tentang ini...?

Dimana letak pengajaran dalam Hukum Taurat dimana seseorang yg masih hidup BISA MEMBANTU orang yg sudah mati dengan memberikan Korban Penebusan Salah kepada mereka...?

Apa yg dilakukan oleh Yudas Makabe sesuai dengan bunyi kalimat ini "..Yudas ingat bahwa tersedialah pahala yang amat indah bagi sekalian orang yang meninggal dengan saleh. Ini sungguh suatu pikiran yang mursid dan saleh..." MEMANG DIANGGAP BAIK pada saat itu, alasannya juga dituliskan dalam ayat2 dr Makabe itu, tp ketika apa yg dilakukannya BERTENTANGAN dengan apa yg diajarkan dalam Hukum Taurat, tentunya Hukum Taurat harus menjadi hakim atas apa yg dilakukan oleh Yudas Makabe.

Disini Sy mau mengatakan sekali lagi bahwa, Sy tidak keberatan ketika anda mendoakan orang mati karena itu ajaran gereja anda, tapi ketika ada ayat2 yg dicatut untuk menguatkan pengajaran itu, tentunya ayat2 itu yg harus dikaji.


Ignas wrote
Quote
sekarang saya jawab pertanyaan kamu,
Duke : "Apakah korban penebus salah yg diajarkan dalam Hukum Taurat, juga ditujukan untuk orang mati....?"

Jawab : Dapat digunakan utk mendoakan org mati..


Dimana letak pengajaran dalam Hukum Taurat dimana seseorang yg masih hidup BISA MEMBANTU orang yg sudah mati dengan memberikan Korban Penebusan Salah kepada mereka...?
For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;[Yet] through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.

Offline St Yopi

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Re: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2012, 09:41:55 PM »
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/kaddish.html
Kita ikuti "permainanmu"

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/kaddish.html

1. The Mourner's Kaddish is recited for eleven months from the day of the death and also on the yahrzeit (anniversary of a death). A person may say Kaddish not only for parents, but also for a child, brother, or in-law. An adopted son should say it for adoptive parents who raised him. The Rabbinical Kaddish, Half Kaddish, and Whole Kaddish may be said by a chazzan (cantor - prayer leader) who is not a mourner and has both parents living.

2. Kaddish is a way in which children can continue to show respect and concern for their parents even after they have died.

3. One explanation is that it is an expression of acceptance of Divine judgment and righteousness at a time when a person may easily become bitter and reject God.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/death.html

1. After the avelut period is complete, the family of the deceased is not permitted to continue formal mourning; however, there are a few continuing acknowledgments of the decedent. Every year, on the anniversary of the death, family members observe the deceased's Yahrzeit (Yiddish, lit. "anniversary"). Sons recite Kaddish and take an aliyah (bless the Torah reading) in synagogue if possible. Mourners light a candle in honor of the decedent that burns for 24 hours. In addition, during services on Yom Kippur, Shemini Atzeret, the last day of Passover, and Shavu'ot, after the haftarah reading in synagogue, close relatives recite the mourner's prayer, Yizkor ("May He remember...") in synagogue. Yahrzeit candles are also lit on those days.

2. The prayer begins "May His great Name grow exalted and sanctified in the world that He created as He willed. May He give reign to His kingship in your lifetimes and in your days ..." and continues in much that vein. The real mourner's prayer is El Molai Rachamim, which is recited at grave sites and during funerals.

3. According to Jewish tradition, the soul must spend some time purifying itself before it can enter heaven. The maximum time required for purification is 12 months, for the most evil person. To recite Kaddish for 12 months would imply that the parent was the type who needed 12 months of purification! To avoid this implication, the Sages decreed that a son should recite Kaddish for only eleven months.

4. A person is permitted to recite Kaddish for other close relatives as well as parents, but only if his parents are dead.

Menurutmu, itu mendoakan orang mati atau bagaimana?

Silahkan!
Inter Esse Et Non Esse

Cogito Ergo Sum

Tuus Totus Ego Sum, Et Omnia Mea Tua Sunt

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus

In Hoc Signo Vinces

With love,

your Yopi

Offline St Yopi

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Re: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2012, 09:55:48 PM »
http://www.ou.org/yerushalayim/yizkor/emman.htm

The transliteration and translation appearing below are adapted, with permission, from the Seif Edition of the Transliterated Siddur, for Shabbat and Festivals, a Mesorah Publication for the OU Centennial, with Introductory essays and comments by Rabbi Benjamin Yudin.

Transliteration of "E-l Malei Rachamim"

E-l malei rachamim,
shochayn bam'romim,
ham-tzay m'nucha n'chona
al kanfay Hash'china,

b'ma-alot k'doshim ut-horim
k'zo-har haraki-a mazhirim,

et nishmat (Name of the Deceased)
she-halach l-olamo,

ba-avur sheb'li neder etayn tz'dakah
b'ad hazkarat nishmato.

B'gan Ayden t'hay m'nuchato;

la-chayn Ba-al Harachamim
yas-tiray-hu b'sayter k'nafav l'olamim,
v'yitz-ror bitz-ror hacha-yim et nishmato,

Ado-nay Hu na-chalato,
v'yanu-ach b'shalom al mishkavo.

V'nomar: Amayn.

Translation of "E-l Malei Rachamim"

O G-d, full of mercy, Who dwells on high,
grant proper rest on the wings of the Divine Presence -

in the lofty levels of the holy and the pure ones,
who shine like the glow of the firmament -

for the soul of (…)
who has gone on to his world,

because, without making a vow,
I will contribute to charity in remembrance of his soul.

May his resting place be in the Garden of Eden -

therefore may the Master of Mercy
shelter him in the shelter of His wings for Eternity,
and may He bind his soul in the Bond of Life.

Hashem is his heritage,
and may he repose in peace on his resting place.

Now let us respond: Amen

:doh:
Inter Esse Et Non Esse

Cogito Ergo Sum

Tuus Totus Ego Sum, Et Omnia Mea Tua Sunt

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus

In Hoc Signo Vinces

With love,

your Yopi

Offline Duke Archangel

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Re: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2012, 09:58:28 PM »
Kita ikuti "permainanmu"

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/kaddish.html

1. The Mourner's Kaddish is recited for eleven months from the day of the death and also on the yahrzeit (anniversary of a death). A person may say Kaddish not only for parents, but also for a child, brother, or in-law. An adopted son should say it for adoptive parents who raised him. The Rabbinical Kaddish, Half Kaddish, and Whole Kaddish may be said by a chazzan (cantor - prayer leader) who is not a mourner and has both parents living.

2. Kaddish is a way in which children can continue to show respect and concern for their parents even after they have died.

3. One explanation is that it is an expression of acceptance of Divine judgment and righteousness at a time when a person may easily become bitter and reject God.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/death.html

1. After the avelut period is complete, the family of the deceased is not permitted to continue formal mourning; however, there are a few continuing acknowledgments of the decedent. Every year, on the anniversary of the death, family members observe the deceased's Yahrzeit (Yiddish, lit. "anniversary"). Sons recite Kaddish and take an aliyah (bless the Torah reading) in synagogue if possible. Mourners light a candle in honor of the decedent that burns for 24 hours. In addition, during services on Yom Kippur, Shemini Atzeret, the last day of Passover, and Shavu'ot, after the haftarah reading in synagogue, close relatives recite the mourner's prayer, Yizkor ("May He remember...") in synagogue. Yahrzeit candles are also lit on those days.

2. The prayer begins "May His great Name grow exalted and sanctified in the world that He created as He willed. May He give reign to His kingship in your lifetimes and in your days ..." and continues in much that vein. The real mourner's prayer is El Molai Rachamim, which is recited at grave sites and during funerals.

3. According to Jewish tradition, the soul must spend some time purifying itself before it can enter heaven. The maximum time required for purification is 12 months, for the most evil person. To recite Kaddish for 12 months would imply that the parent was the type who needed 12 months of purification! To avoid this implication, the Sages decreed that a son should recite Kaddish for only eleven months.

4. A person is permitted to recite Kaddish for other close relatives as well as parents, but only if his parents are dead.

Menurutmu, itu mendoakan orang mati atau bagaimana?

Silahkan!

Sepertinya yg Sy bahas jelas&Sy g' perlu re-write apa yg Sy bahas, bukan tradisi seperti Kaddish.
Qt punya interpretasi berbeda ttg itu.
For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;[Yet] through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.

Offline St Yopi

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Re: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2012, 10:00:22 PM »
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_for_the_dead

"God, filled with mercy, dwelling in the heavens' heights, bring proper rest beneath the wings of your Shechinah, amid the ranks of the holy and the pure, illuminating like the brilliance of the skies the souls of our beloved and our blameless who went to their eternal place of rest. May You who are the source of mercy shelter them beneath Your wings eternally, and bind their souls among the living, that they may rest in peace."

:doh:
Inter Esse Et Non Esse

Cogito Ergo Sum

Tuus Totus Ego Sum, Et Omnia Mea Tua Sunt

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus

In Hoc Signo Vinces

With love,

your Yopi

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Re: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2012, 10:06:34 PM »
Sepertinya yg Sy bahas jelas&Sy g' perlu re-write apa yg Sy bahas, bukan tradisi seperti Kaddish.
Qt punya interpretasi berbeda ttg itu.
Hahaha... Itu dari sumbermu yang kamu pertahankan mati2an, ternyata sumbermu malah menunjukkan bahwa tradisi Yahudi memang mendoakan orang mati!

Kalau tidak percaya, silahkan pergi ke tempat kursus bahasa Inggris, trus bayar guru kursus disitu buat terjemahin, pasti jelas kok bro :) :doh:

Belum lagi dua postingan saya yang lain dari sumber resmi doa Yahudi!

:) :doh:
Inter Esse Et Non Esse

Cogito Ergo Sum

Tuus Totus Ego Sum, Et Omnia Mea Tua Sunt

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus

In Hoc Signo Vinces

With love,

your Yopi

Offline Duke Archangel

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Re: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2012, 10:10:55 PM »
Hahaha... Itu dari sumbermu yang kamu pertahankan mati2an, ternyata sumbermu malah menunjukkan bahwa tradisi Yahudi memang mendoakan orang mati!

Kalau tidak percaya, silahkan pergi ke tempat kursus bahasa Inggris, trus bayar guru kursus disitu buat terjemahin, pasti jelas kok bro :) :doh:

Belum lagi dua postingan saya yang lain dari sumber resmi doa Yahudi!

:) :doh:

He..3x..
Ngapain Sy pertahankan mati2an bro..
G' usah tendensius gitu lah..
Terlebih itu tradisi orang lain..
So..
Let's get back 2 laptop... :nod:
For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;[Yet] through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.

Offline St Yopi

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Re: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2012, 10:21:57 PM »
He..3x..
Ngapain Sy pertahankan mati2an bro..
G' usah tendensius gitu lah..
Terlebih itu tradisi orang lain..
So..
Let's get back 2 laptop... :nod:
ºќ (y) ºќ ºќ (y) ºќ. Silahkan cek link2 yang saya berikan mengenai mendoakan orang mati dalam tradisi Yahudi, terutama di link:

http://www.ou.org/yerushalayim/yizkor/emman.htm

Silahkan... :)
Inter Esse Et Non Esse

Cogito Ergo Sum

Tuus Totus Ego Sum, Et Omnia Mea Tua Sunt

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus

In Hoc Signo Vinces

With love,

your Yopi

Offline Duke Archangel

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Re: Ayat2 yg diambil untuk mendukung pengajaran "Mendoakan orang mati"
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2012, 02:39:00 AM »
ºќ (y) ºќ ºќ (y) ºќ. Silahkan cek link2 yang saya berikan mengenai mendoakan orang mati dalam tradisi Yahudi, terutama di link:

http://www.ou.org/yerushalayim/yizkor/emman.htm

Silahkan... :)

Yupz... :afro:
For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;[Yet] through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.