Alasan reformed dan protestan bersolascriptura

[Husada]

Lha belum apa2 sudah ngumpul Council Husada, Bro Cadang & Bro Salt.
Teman2 Reformed bisa dikeroyok nih   

Melihat model ketawanya Phooey (ikon pilihannya) ini, seperti beraroma cemburu, ya?

[Phooey]

Melihat model ketawanya Phooey (ikon pilihannya) ini, seperti beraroma cemburu, ya?

Enggak juga sih.

Kepingin nya biar dateng teman2 kita Bro Soli, Bro OSAS dan Bro Quovadis.

Kan enak ...................


hehehehehe   

[cadangdata]

Atau bisa disebut juga dengan product differentiation :

In economics and marketing, product differentiation (or simply differentiation) is the process of distinguishing a product or service from others, to make it more attractive to a particular target market. This involves differentiating it from competitors' products as well as a firm's own products. The concept was proposed by Edward Chamberlin in his 1933 Theory of Monopolistic Competition.

Jadi sebenarnya sih sudah teknik kuno, cuma masih dipergunakan hingga saat ini.

 

Tepat sekali mas...

bahkan kalo gak salah...

Semakin mirip produk-nya..
maka biasanya sang Follower akan SEMAKIN MATI-MATIAN dan semakin NAPSU untuk menunjukkan bahwa "BEDA LHO".. dan yang sama-pun DI-PUNTAR-PUNTIR biar BEDA...

itu memang Strategi Follower Brands di mana-mana sih mas...
karena jelas kalah Brand-Value-nya, maka EFFORT_nya harus Extra Keras untuk Meng-Akuisisi Customer dari Leading Brand-nya...

Biasanya, strategi di kuliah pertama di semester satu adalah:
- Point out your competitor's weakness, or Create the "PERCEPTION" of weakness

hehehe......
aduh... kenTONGan saya rusak euy....
beli dulu ah ke pasar... hehehe....

[salt]

Tepat sekali mas...

bahkan kalo gak salah...

Semakin mirip produk-nya..
maka biasanya sang Follower akan SEMAKIN MATI-MATIAN dan semakin NAPSU untuk menunjukkan bahwa "BEDA LHO".. dan yang sama-pun DI-PUNTAR-PUNTIR biar BEDA...

itu memang Strategi Follower Brands di mana-mana sih mas...
karena jelas kalah Brand-Value-nya, maka EFFORT_nya harus Extra Keras untuk Meng-Akuisisi Customer dari Leading Brand-nya...

Biasanya, strategi di kuliah pertama di semester satu adalah:
- Point out your competitor's weakness, or Create the "PERCEPTION" of weakness

hehehe......
aduh... kenTONGan saya rusak euy....
beli dulu ah ke pasar... hehehe....

Jiaaah

 

[Phooey]

Tepat sekali mas...

bahkan kalo gak salah...

Semakin mirip produk-nya..
maka biasanya sang Follower akan SEMAKIN MATI-MATIAN dan semakin NAPSU untuk menunjukkan bahwa "BEDA LHO".. dan yang sama-pun DI-PUNTAR-PUNTIR biar BEDA...

itu memang Strategi Follower Brands di mana-mana sih mas...
karena jelas kalah Brand-Value-nya, maka EFFORT_nya harus Extra Keras untuk Meng-Akuisisi Customer dari Leading Brand-nya...

Biasanya, strategi di kuliah pertama di semester satu adalah:
- Point out your competitor's weakness, or Create the "PERCEPTION" of weakness

hehehe......
aduh... kenTONGan saya rusak euy....
beli dulu ah ke pasar... hehehe....

Waduhhh   

Nanti disemprit Momod lho


 

[salt]

Waduhhh   

Nanti disemprit Momod lho


 

Memangnya mod sini senang main sempritan ya, om?

 

[Phooey]

Memangnya mod sini senang main sempritan ya, om?

 

Enggak....

Momod disini baek2


 

[salt]

Enggak....

Momod disini baek2


 

Syukurlah, soalnya belum ada yang kenal.
Jarang muncul ya?

 

[St Yopi]

Daripada si soli OOT ditopik sebelah, mending diajak kesini.

Hanya Alkitab saja atau Solascriptura, tidak dikenal oleh para Rasul, para Bapa Gereja, Gereja Perdana, iman Rasuli bahkan Alkitab itu sendiri.

Bahkan Alkitab memberikan kesaksian yang menolak Solascriptura:

Yoh 21:25 Masih banyak hal-hal lain lagi yang diperbuat oleh Yesus, tetapi jikalau semuanya itu harus dituliskan satu per satu, maka agaknya dunia ini tidak dapat memuat semua kitab yang harus ditulis itu.
2 Tes 2:15 Sebab itu, berdirilah teguh dan berpeganglah pada tradisi-tradisi yang kamu terima dari kami, baik secara lisan, maupun secara tertulis.
1Tim 3:15c Gereja-Nya adalah tiang penopang dan dasar kebenaran.

Solascriptura tidak dikenal oleh para Rasul, Bapa Gereja dan Alkitab.

Maka berdasarkan ketiga ayat tersebut, Gereja Katolik mengimani Alkitab, Tradisi Suci dan Magisterium Gereja.

Kalau belum mengerti dalam 3 hari, silahkan hubungi guru TK terdekat.

Salam

[cadangdata]

bahkan jikalau kita menggunakan p.o.v. solascriptura..
yg antara lain: "jangan menambah dan mengurangi apa yang sudah tertulis",

maka "Ajaran Solascriptura" itu sendiri JELAS-JELAS TIDAK-SolaScriptura, karena SolaScriptura itu sendiri TIDAK ALKITABIAH, sebab tidak ada ayatnya..

Maka,
bagi rekan-rekan kita yang MENGAKU sebagai pengikut AJARAN SOLASCRIPTURA, apalagi yg hardcore..
tentu dengan sendirinya pasti sudah tahu bahwa "SolaScriptura itu Tidak Alkitabiah, dan tentu Tidak SOLA pula"
dan oleh karenanya, perlu untuk "dikoreksi" agar "kembali ke jalan yang benar"

demikian pendapat saya...

[solideogloria]

Banyak pemimpin kristen awal juga menganut prinsip ajaran Sola Scriptura misalnya :

180 AD: Irenaeus:

"We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith. For it is unlawful to assert that they preached before they possessed "perfect knowledge," as some do even venture to say, boasting themselves as improvers of the apostles." (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, book 3, 1, 1)

    Irenaeus states that the gospel was first orally revealed, then the gospel was recorded in scriptures and calls the scriptures the "ground and pillar" of faith. This should send shivers up the spine of every Roman Catholic and Orthodox because it is a clear interpretation of 1 Tim 3:15 where the same expression is used of the church. Obviously then, Irenaeus viewed that the church came second in authority under the scriptures. It is also clear that you can make no change from what the apostles teach as it was the unchangeable standard of doctrine.

[Jenova]

Banyak pemimpin kristen awal juga menganut prinsip ajaran Sola Scriptura misalnya :

180 AD: Irenaeus:

"We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith. For it is unlawful to assert that they preached before they possessed "perfect knowledge," as some do even venture to say, boasting themselves as improvers of the apostles." (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, book 3, 1, 1)

    Irenaeus states that the gospel was first orally revealed, then the gospel was recorded in scriptures and calls the scriptures the "ground and pillar" of faith. This should send shivers up the spine of every Roman Catholic and Orthodox because it is a clear interpretation of 1 Tim 3:15 where the same expression is used of the church. Obviously then, Irenaeus viewed that the church came second in authority under the scriptures. It is also clear that you can make no change from what the apostles teach as it was the unchangeable standard of doctrine.

Wah wah... Tulisan ini telah menyelewengkan ajaran Irenaeus yg sebenarnya tentang otoritas Kitab Suci.
Irenaeus menuliskan bahwa para rasul mengajarkan Injil, yang kemudian hari diwariskan kepada kita dalam bentuk Kitab Suci sebagai dasar dan tiang penopang iman, BUKAN utk mengajarkan konsep sola-scriptura, melainkan utk melawan bidaah yg menolak otoritas Kitab Suci, karena para bidaat ini berani mengaku sebagai pihak2 yg menyempurnakan ajaran para rasul dan mengajarkan ajaran2 yg berbeda dengan Kitab Suci.
Secara jelas, hal ini tertulis dalam kalimat yg mengikuti kutipan di atas, yang secara sengaja telah dipotong oleh penulis utk menunjukkan bahwa seolah2 Irenaeus mengajarkan sola-scriptura.

We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith. For it is unlawful to assert that they preached before they possessed "perfect knowledge," as some do even venture to say, boasting themselves as improvers of the apostles. For it is unlawful to assert that they preached before they possessed «perfect knowledge,» as some do even venture to say, boasting themselves as improvers of the apostles.
(Irenaeus, Against Heresies, book 3, 1, 1)

Lagi2, pendukung sola-scriptura memutilasi tulisan Irenaeus dan menyembunyikan ajaran Irenaeus yang jelas2 menggunakan otoritas Tradisi Suci yang setara dengan Kitab Suci utk melawan para bidaat.
Irenaeus dalam tulisan yg sama: "Against Heresies", dalam tulisan selanjutnya: "Book 3, 2, 1-3"  justru membasmi para bidaat dengan menggunakan Kitab Suci DAN Tradisi Suci secara sejajar (equal).

1. When, however, they are confuted from the Scriptures, they turn round and accuse these same Scriptures, as if they were not correct, nor of authority, and [assert] that they are ambiguous, and that the truth cannot be extracted from them by those who are ignorant of tradition. For [they allege] that the truth was not delivered by means of written documents, but vivâ voce: wherefore also Paul declared, «But we speak wisdom among those that are perfect, but not the wisdom of this world.» 1 Corinthians 2:6 And this wisdom each one of them alleges to be the fiction of his own inventing, forsooth; so that, according to their idea, the truth properly resides at one time in Valentinus, at another in Marcion, at another in Cerinthus, then afterwards in Basilides, or has even been indifferently in any other opponent, who could speak nothing pertaining to salvation. For every one of these men, being altogether of a perverse disposition, depraving the system of truth, is not ashamed to preach himself.

2. But, again, when we refer them to that tradition which originates from the apostles, [and] which is preserved by means of the succession of presbyters in the Churches, they object to tradition, saying that they themselves are wiser not merely than the presbyters, but even than the apostles, because they have discovered the unadulterated truth. For [they maintain] that the apostles intermingled the things of the law with the words of the Saviour; and that not the apostles alone, but even the Lord Himself, spoke as at one time from the Demiurge, at another from the intermediate place, and yet again from the Pleroma, but that they themselves, indubitably, unsulliedly, and purely, have knowledge of the hidden mystery: this is, indeed, to blaspheme their Creator after a most impudent manner! It comes to this, therefore, that these men do now consent neither to Scripture nor to tradition.

3. Such are the adversaries with whom we have to deal, my very dear friend, endeavouring like slippery serpents to escape at all points. Where-fore they must be opposed at all points, if per-chance, by cutting off their retreat, we may succeed in turning them back to the truth. For, though it is not an easy thing for a soul under the influence of error to repent, yet, on the other hand, it is not altogether impossible to escape from error when the truth is brought alongside it.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103302.htm

So... sebetulnya bidaah yg menolak otoritas Tradisi Suci telah dihadapi Gereja sejak jaman Gereja Purba, dan oleh Irenaeus yg tulisannya dipakai oleh pendukung sola-scriptura, bidaah yg menolak otoritas Tradisi Suci ini justru telah dikutuk dan dinyatakan sebagai: "endeavouring like slippery serpents to escape at all points, must be opposed at all points"

[solideogloria]

Wah wah... Tulisan ini telah menyelewengkan ajaran Irenaeus yg sebenarnya tentang otoritas Kitab Suci.
Irenaeus menuliskan bahwa para rasul mengajarkan Injil, yang kemudian hari diwariskan kepada kita dalam bentuk Kitab Suci sebagai dasar dan tiang penopang iman, BUKAN utk mengajarkan konsep sola-scriptura, melainkan utk melawan bidaah yg menolak otoritas Kitab Suci, karena para bidaat ini berani mengaku sebagai pihak2 yg menyempurnakan ajaran para rasul dan mengajarkan ajaran2 yg berbeda dengan Kitab Suci.
Secara jelas, hal ini tertulis dalam kalimat yg mengikuti kutipan di atas, yang secara sengaja telah dipotong oleh penulis utk menunjukkan bahwa seolah2 Irenaeus mengajarkan sola-scriptura.

We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith. For it is unlawful to assert that they preached before they possessed "perfect knowledge," as some do even venture to say, boasting themselves as improvers of the apostles. For it is unlawful to assert that they preached before they possessed «perfect knowledge,» as some do even venture to say, boasting themselves as improvers of the apostles.
(Irenaeus, Against Heresies, book 3, 1, 1)

Lagi2, pendukung sola-scriptura memutilasi tulisan Irenaeus dan menyembunyikan ajaran Irenaeus yang jelas2 menggunakan otoritas Tradisi Suci yang setara dengan Kitab Suci utk melawan para bidaat.
Irenaeus dalam tulisan yg sama: "Against Heresies", dalam tulisan selanjutnya: "Book 3, 2, 1-3"  justru membasmi para bidaat dengan menggunakan Kitab Suci DAN Tradisi Suci secara sejajar (equal).

1. When, however, they are confuted from the Scriptures, they turn round and accuse these same Scriptures, as if they were not correct, nor of authority, and [assert] that they are ambiguous, and that the truth cannot be extracted from them by those who are ignorant of tradition. For [they allege] that the truth was not delivered by means of written documents, but vivâ voce: wherefore also Paul declared, «But we speak wisdom among those that are perfect, but not the wisdom of this world.» 1 Corinthians 2:6 And this wisdom each one of them alleges to be the fiction of his own inventing, forsooth; so that, according to their idea, the truth properly resides at one time in Valentinus, at another in Marcion, at another in Cerinthus, then afterwards in Basilides, or has even been indifferently in any other opponent, who could speak nothing pertaining to salvation. For every one of these men, being altogether of a perverse disposition, depraving the system of truth, is not ashamed to preach himself.

2. But, again, when we refer them to that tradition which originates from the apostles, [and] which is preserved by means of the succession of presbyters in the Churches, they object to tradition, saying that they themselves are wiser not merely than the presbyters, but even than the apostles, because they have discovered the unadulterated truth. For [they maintain] that the apostles intermingled the things of the law with the words of the Saviour; and that not the apostles alone, but even the Lord Himself, spoke as at one time from the Demiurge, at another from the intermediate place, and yet again from the Pleroma, but that they themselves, indubitably, unsulliedly, and purely, have knowledge of the hidden mystery: this is, indeed, to blaspheme their Creator after a most impudent manner! It comes to this, therefore, that these men do now consent neither to Scripture nor to tradition.

3. Such are the adversaries with whom we have to deal, my very dear friend, endeavouring like slippery serpents to escape at all points. Where-fore they must be opposed at all points, if per-chance, by cutting off their retreat, we may succeed in turning them back to the truth. For, though it is not an easy thing for a soul under the influence of error to repent, yet, on the other hand, it is not altogether impossible to escape from error when the truth is brought alongside it.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103302.htm

So... sebetulnya bidaah yg menolak otoritas Tradisi Suci telah dihadapi Gereja sejak jaman Gereja Purba, dan oleh Irenaeus yg tulisannya dipakai oleh pendukung sola-scriptura, bidaah yg menolak otoritas Tradisi Suci ini justru telah dikutuk dan dinyatakan sebagai: "endeavouring like slippery serpents to escape at all points, must be opposed at all points"

Sola Scriptura sama seperti Tritunggal tidak ada istilahnya tetapi prinsipnya banyak didasarkan kepada ajaran Kitab Suci.

Prinsip Sola Scriptura adalah prinsip yang mengembalikan otoritas kebenaran kepada kebenaran Alkitab (Back to Bible) bukan merampok kebenaran Tuhan menjadi milik manusia yang diperdewakan.

Ini berbeda sekali dengan co-redemtrix,mediatrix,Pope infallible dan banyak lagi  yang sama sekali tidak ada ajarannya malah menghujat Tuhan.

180 AD: Clement of Alexandria:

    "But those who are ready to toil in the most excellent pursuits, will not desist from the search after truth,till they get the demonstration from the Scriptures themselves." (Clement of Alexandria, book 7, ch 16, Scripture the Criterion by Which Truth and Heresy are Distinguished).

 

[salt]

Ini berbeda sekali dengan co-redemtrix,mediatrix,Pope infallible dan banyak lagi  yang sama sekali tidak ada ajarannya malah menghujat Tuhan.

Itu kan hanya karena keterbatasan sang superpendeta tong yang mengajari kamu untuk menghujat gereja Katolik, karena iri dan dengki saja. Kalau kemampuan belajarnya setara dengan kebenciannya, sudah pasti sang superpendeta bisa melihatnya, sehingga bisa mengajari kamu, sehingga otakmu jadi sedikit terisi.

[Leonardo]

Jadi yang mengajarkan protestan untuk sola scriptura siapa kalau ndak ada ayat yang bilang sola dalam Kitab Suci...

bapa Gereja, atau Tradisi Protestan sendiri i.e luther dkk